Sunday, April 24, 2011
The Guest-Host Relationship
Thus far in the Odyssey, both Telemachus and Odysseus have been strangers in a strange land. What kind of reception did they receive? What does this reception tell us about the duties of a host? Do guests have a corresponding duty? What is the ideal guest-host relationship?
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Both Telemachus and Odysseus visit strange lands, far from their homeland in Ithaca. The ways they are each welcomed help tell us what is expected from a guest. Telemachus is welcomed with a great ceremony for him. He leaves with newfound and trustworthy friends. Odysseus, however, is not so fortunate. Most of his hosts welcome him with brutality and a plan a fate of doom for him.
ReplyDeleteThe hosts of these lands Telemachus and Odysseus visit welcome them in the way they do because of how Telemachus and Odysseus choose to act as guests. Telemachus is always very polite, addressing each person with a proper name before he speaks. “Nestor, son of Neleus, Achaea’s pride and glory…” (3.89), “Look Pisistratrus-joy of my heart, my friend-he sheen of bronze, the blaze of gold and amber, silver, ivory too…” (4.79-81) are examples of how Telemachus addresses each of his hosts. These complimentary names are components for a positive relationship with his hosts. His hosts are then flattered and are willing to help him in any way. Odysseus, however, is only concerned about what he will gain in the end of each meeting. He expects his hosts to treat him with as if he were a god. He demands a gift and reminds his hosts that that is their duty as a host. “…we’re at your knees in hopes of a warm welcome, even a guest gift, the sort that hosts give strangers.” (9.300-302) As a guest, Odysseus is very selfish and inconsiderate towards his hosts. This doesn’t exactly please his hosts. His hosts like the Cyclops, Polyphemus, plan to eat him up.
As a guest, one must never expect to be welcomed. They must offer some kindness towards their hosts before they expect anything from their host. Telemachus is considerate. Odysseus is self-seeking only. Yes, a host should offer a guest gift to anyone, but it should not be required if the guest demands it right when they meet. The guest-host relationship goes both ways. Each person has a duty and they must work together to form a bond of trust. It cannot be done with only one following their duty.
Clare, I agree with part of your point but not all of it. Yes, Telemachus is always polite to the hosts and in return, they are kind and help him. However, although Odysseus may not be as polite, the hosts Odysseus meet are usually very accepting.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely about how Telemachus always talks to people he meet with great respect, and so in return, he also gains much respect and help. This respect to the guest result in the host helping Telemachus trying to find stories about his father like Clare said. For Odysseus, you talk about the incident with Polythemus, but this is the only convincing example of the host not accepting Odysseus. Polythemus is a cyclops which justifies his intensity. However, there are multiple examples where Odysseus is welcomed. For example, when we see Odysseus in Chapter eight, he is on the island of Phoenicia, and the Phoenician people threw Odysseus a party in his honor. During the party, there is singing, telling of stories even some about Odysseus. Odysseus is not selfish in this example, as he even takes part in the games and is gracious of this party. Another example is when Odysseus meets Aeolus. Here, Aeolus “hosted me one entire month, he pressed me for the news… and I told him the whole long story, first to last” (4.17-.19). Odysseus told Aeolus his entire story, and because of this kindness, Aeolus gave Odysseus a bag of winds to help him reach Ithica. These examples show how Odysseus is not always selfish and inconsiderate like Clare just said. If he was always selfish like you said, Odysseus would have never been able to obtain the bag of wind or much other help needed on his journey.
An ideal guest-host relationship is one like Telemachus and Nestor’s. Telemachus greets Nestor warmly, and throughout the entire conversation, Telemachus is considerate, as he realizes he is the guest in the situation. For the host, the host should offer as much help for the person as he possibly can, like Nestor did by providing Telemachus with shelter, food, and a horse and his son to help him on his journey to Menelaus. Like Clare said, both the guest and the host have their own responsibilities, and if followed, a relationship of compassion and helpfulness would be acquired.
Throughout the Epic, The Odyssey, both Telemachus and Odysseus travel too many different places and meet many different people as guests. There are many examples of the guest-host relationship in the Odyssey. In the epic i have noticed that being a guest is very important as the host, most of the time, welcomes the guest with warmth and treats them like a king. For example in the beginning of the epic Calypso greets and welcomes Odysseus by sleeping with him and doing whatever he wanted. I believe being a host in this epic is very important and it is an honor to be a host. The hosts in all of both Telemachus and Odysseus journeys they have treated both of them with great pleasure by giving them food, or shelter, or sleeping with them, giving them something very valuable, or just helping them. I believe guests do have a corresponding duty because if they didn’t it would seem impolite if they didn’t give the guest something back. For example i will go back to the Calypso part where she held Odysseus as a "captive" but she pleasured him even though he has a wife he kept receiving the pleasurement. If Odysseus did not have sex with Calypso back then it would have been disrespectful and he would be a bad guest. The ideal guest-host relationship is when a guest arrives at your island then the host must welcome the guest and serve them to make sure they are comfortable in your kingdom as a welcomed guest. The guest duty is to give something back to the host and they must accept everything the host gives them no matter what it is even if it means cheating on your wife.
ReplyDeleteHenry, I have to disagree with you on some points. In a guest-host relationship, both the guest and the host have duties to uphold. I believe that both Odysseus and Telemachus are perfect guest. I also think that Telemachus’s hosts are very welcoming, but many of the hosts Odysseus encounters are ruthless and brutal. Odysseus does meet a few kind and caring hosts, but those are only a minor portion of the total hosts he meets.
ReplyDeleteBoth Odysseus and Telemachus meet wonderful hosts along their journeys. Telemachus for example encounters Nestor, who is a great king and welcomes Telemachus with kindness. Nestor gives Telemachus plenty of hospitality and also tells him stories and news of his father, Odysseus, in attempt to help Telemachus’s search for his father. Telemachus in return is very polite and thankful of Nestor’s hospitality and Nestor even sends his own son to help Telemachus in his search for his father. Odysseus also meets a few nice hosts along his journey. For example king Alcinous was one of the few proper hosts Odysseus met. Alcinous welcomed Odysseus warmly with plenty of feasts, games, and songs, of which Odysseus kindly participated. From these encounters, we can see what a proper guest-host relationship truly should be like. The proper guest-host relationship is where the host welcomes the guest warmly, and provides whatever the guest needs. For example a host may have to provide food, hospitality, or even information about a long lost father. In turn the guest should be polite to the host and be grateful for the hosts gifts.
Unfortunately for Odysseus, his hosts are often not this kind. Circe fed Odysseus’s men, “her wicked drugs to wipe from their memories any thought of home,” and even turned his men into pigs (10.259-10.260). Another horrible host Odysseus camp upon were the Laestrygonians, who ate Odysseus men and thrusted rocks at them. Even Polythemus trapped Odysseus in a cave and ate his men two by two. These hosts are obviously not the most welcoming hosts that Odysseus met, and yet, Odysseus still strived to be a great guest with every one of them.
I would have to agree with Noah on this one. He clearly underlines the fact that in a guest-host relationship, both parties have obligations to uphold. The host must be welcoming to the guest, and the guest must be thankful for the warm reception given by the host. Both Odysseus and Telemachus are ideal guests in this book, however not all hosts are as great. All of the hosts that Telemachus encounters welcome him with warm hearts and grand feasts. This type of guest-host relationship is considered the ideal relationship. Odysseus, on the other hand is not so lucky, the majority of his encounters with hosts end with the devouring of his men. This type of guest-host relationship is far from ideal.
ReplyDeleteAn example of an ideal guest-host relationship is the relationship between Telemachus and his host Nestor. Nestor and his family and friends were all assembled together about to enjoy a wonderful feast when Telemachus and Athena arrived, “As soon as they saw the strangers, all came crowding down, waving them on in welcome, urging them to sit” (3. 338-3.339). Nestor is a prime example of a perfect host, he welcomes strangers into his palace without question and gives them all they need, and he also relays information to Telemachus about his father and about Troy. Nestor even sends his own son to help Telemachus to find his father.
An example of a poor guest-host relationship is that of Odysseus and Polyphemus. When Odysseus landed where the great Cyclops Polythemus, son of Poseidon, lived Odysseus and his men expected a customary warm welcome much like one that was given to him by King Alcinous. However, when the Cyclops returned to his cave finding Odysseus and his men, the Cyclops failed to receive them warmly and Odysseus began to plead “But since we’ve chanced on you, we’re at your knees in hopes of a warm welcome, even a guest-gift, the sort that hosts give strangers. That’s the custom” (9. 300-9. 302). Odysseus even prepared wine as a gift to the host that he stayed with, not knowing that this host would not be welcoming. This proves that Odysseus is in fact a fine guest, even if most of the hosts he encounters are ruthless and barbarians.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Sarah, the guest and the host had specific duties that they followed. The Epic shows that the ancient Greeks considered the guest-host relationship a very important code travelers and host should follow. It had to be considering that the Greeks traveled a lot for trade and other things in boats, which makes one greatly dependent on whoever is there, where one docks. Sarah is right that a host should welcome a guest warmly and the guest should be thankful, but the host should try to treat the guest as the host would want to be treated if he/she were a guest and be trusting of the guest to help create a better relationship. The guest is also expected to remember the favor the host did, along with being thankful and respectful, so that if the guest meets the host again and the positions are reversed the guest treats the host the same, if not better than, how the host treated the guest before.
ReplyDeleteTelemachus and Odysseus both act how a proper guest should act, but Odysseus has bad luck at finding good hosts. Odysseus follows exactly how guest should act towards one’s host, but usually he landed on lands where the inhabitants did not care about the guest-host relationship, such as the Cyclops and Leastrygonians, who smashed his ships and ate his men or Circe, who pretended to follow the relationship, but actually used Odysseus’s men’s trust to turn them into pigs. Telemachus had better luck and landed on lands where the people were very welcoming to him and his crew. A good example of the perfect guest-host relationship is the interactions between Telemachus and Menelaus. When Telemachus first arrives and a servant come to Menelaus asking what to do, he says, “Just think of all the hospitality we enjoyed at the hands of other men before we made it home, and god save us from such hard treks in years to come. Quick, unhitch their team. And bring them in, strangers, guests, to share our flowing feast.”(4.38-42). This shows that Menelaus remembers how he was treated when he was a guest and knows how a guest should be treated, with a big feast and anything else to make the guest feel at home. Through out all of Telemachus stay Telemachus and Menelaus both hold up their expected duties as guest and host, including both being friendly and respectful towards each other, a big part of the guest-host relationship. When Telemachus is planning on leaving the next day, Menelaus gives Telemachus a gold and silver mixing bowl made by Hephaestus with out being asked. How Telemachus and Menelaus acted shows how the perfect guest-host relationship should be like. Both sides fulfill their duties as guest and host and both sided end with a new friend and trust for each other.
I completely agree with Noah and Sarah. Telemachus and Odysseus both have met their share people throughout the lengthiness of their journeys and were greeted in several different fashions. Generally, the superlative guest-host relationship, as we could all probably agree on, would be the guest arrives in a state of peace and appreciation while the host is obligated to happily welcome them with positive amenities further followed by the guest fully expressing his thankfulness. When Telemachus’ encounters went somewhat like this, many of Odysseus’s encounters did not. I blame this fully on luck. I do not believe that the guest’s actions truly affected the reception that they received because all is dependent on the general nature of the host. Granted, following the guidelines of the ideal guest-host relationship could probably get you a few perks along the way. However, I feel that the status of a guest could be an intervening variable.
ReplyDeleteTelemachus was blessed with luck regarding the people he encountered along his journey; these people being royal heroes Nestor and Helen/ Menelaus. These people both greeted Telemachus with kindness and hospitality when Telemachus approached and responded politely. They also both ended successfully and Telemachus left Nestor with news about Odysseus as well as Nestor’s son to assist him in his journey and Helen/ Menelaus with news that Odysseus was alive. The factor to keep in mind though, is that when Telemachus arrived at both areas, the hosts were already partaking in joyous events. Nestor was in the midst of celebrating and sacrificing to Poseidon and Helen and Menelaus were celebrating the marriage of a child. It is a possibility that Telemachus was greeted nicely because the hosts were already in a content state of mind, and when Helen and Menelaus realized that Telemachus was Odysseus’ son, he was treated even better. “Help yourselves to food, and welcome! Once you’ve dined we’ll ask you who you are. But your parents’ blood is hardly lost in you. You must be born of kings, bred by the gods to wield the royal scepter…” (Menelaus- pg. 126)
Odysseus, however, did not remain so lucky. He greeted and treated King Alcinous, Polythemus, and the Laestrygonians all the same as Telemachus and ended with negative results. Alcinous treated Odysseus with a proper reception in spite of his heroic status, although when he arrived after his bag of winds had been released, Alcinous assumingly concluded that he was cursed by the gods and his status lowered, therefore he was turned away. Running into Polythemus and the Laestrygonians was unlucky. No matter how he treated them, he would have a fatality filled ill-fated ending. Therefore, the reception that a guest typically receives is determined by luck.
I agree with Henry entirely. Both Odysseus and Telemachus received warm welcomes when they arrived in strange lands, and they both were kind to their hosts in return.
ReplyDeleteBoth Odysseus and Telemachus received warm receptions from people of the strange lands that they land on. When Telemachus landed on Sparta, they had a feast where they told stories of Telemachus’s father Odysseus. Also, when Telemachus came across the land of Pylos, the king of the land, Nestor, offered Telemachus his son to help find stories of his father.
Telemachus was not the only one receiving these kind receptions, Odysseus was also being treated very kindly by strangers of strange lands. When Odysseus was washed up on Scheria, the Phaeacian people were very kind to him, they offered to give him a ship so he could sail home, and before they Odysseus leaves the Phaeacians throw him a feast.
The receptions that the two men received tells me that the duties of the host, during this time period in Greece, is to respect a stranger and give all needed substances. The guest’s duty is to be kind to the strangers taking them in, and respect them. Also, the guests should give a brief reason for why they are on island and where they are planning to go. The ideal guest host relation is when the guests and the hosts respect each other equally or the hosts offer more to the guest because the guest seems to have less than the kingdoms on the strange lands have.
Odysseus and Telemachus have both received warm welcomes from the variety of places they have visited and have both proven to be respectful and idea guests. Yet as others have stated, both the guest and the host have responsibilities they must adhere to in order to make the reception as smooth as possible. In Greek society it is obvious that the guest is treated with the utmost care and respect. The many fantastic receptions both Odysseus and Telemachus received are evident that the guest are treated very well. Throughout the Odyssey Telemachus is treated fairly and grandly when received into other kingdoms. Apparently the idea guest-host relationship focuses on the host to treat the guest like royalty. Yet either way it showcases the ideal guest-host relationship. However this is not always the case. Odysseus is not always treated with such a grand reception in certain cases. For example, his encounter with the Laestrygonians prove to be deadly for some of his crew. Also, his first encounter with Circe doesn't live up to the other receptions he has received. Those examples showcase what isn't an ideal guest-host relationship. As said earlier, both the guest and the host have certain responsibilities that are key for every successful reception. The guest must be grateful and thankful, respectful and eager to help out where he can. While the host must be careful and go all out every time in order to make the guest as comfortable as possible. This is evident because, "Our banquet’s ended, so you may retire; but let ... our seniors gather in the morning. To give this guest a festal day, and make fair offerings to the gods. In due course we shall put our minds upon the means at hand. To take him safely, comfortably, well a nd happily, with speed,to his own country, distant though it may lie." (7.203-210) Alcinous does not know who Odysseus is, thus showcasing how hospitality is part of Greek culture.
ReplyDeleteTelemachus and Odysseus both experience being guests during their journeys. The hospitality they receive from their hosts is a vital part of their journeys home. Without it, their voyages may have been impossible. One example of the exceptional hospitality Telemachus receives is in Sparta by the King Menelaus. Before Telemachus is even able to utter a word, the king tells his kings men “Just think of all the hospitality we enjoyed at the hands of other men before we made it home, and god save us from such hard treks in years to come. Quick, unhitch their team. And bring them in strangers, guests, to share our flowing feast.” (4.38-42) This shows the great history of the Greek hospitality as Menelaus alludes to his own voyage home and the guest-host relationships he encountered. Shortly after Menelaus command, Telemachus and his companion Nestor’s son are bathed and rapped in shirts and warm fleece; this is a classic example of how a man will treat his guest as kinsmen. This is exceptionally amazing because Menelaus has no idea who these two travelers are. He is treating them like kings even through he has no idea they are descendants of the great Nestor and Odysseus.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus also relies on hosts throughout his voyage. He, however, meets his fair share of inhospitable hosts who create deadly situations. One example of such is the Cyclopes, Poplyphemus. Poplyphemus is the most evil of hosts. For instance, he locks Odysseus and his men inside his cave once he finds them hiding in the back corner. He then repeatedly kills and eats Odysseus’ comrades two at a time. At one point Odysseus tries to reason with him and in return for Odysseys’ name he is given a gift from the Cyclopes. Odysseus lies and states that his name is nobody. In response Poplyphemus says “Nobody? I’ll eat Nobody last of all his friends--- I’ll eat the other first! That’s my gift to you!” (9.412-14) This is an example of an inhospitable host. Normally, upon departure the host gives a gift to the guest. The Cyclops’s gift to Odysseus is that he is going to wait to kill him last, which is a supremely uncongenial action. Although Odysseus does experience this horrific host, he more often receives good hospitality, such as in the kingdom of Alcinous. The kingdom is a near perfect image of the supreme guest-host relationship. As a gift, Broadsea gives Odysseus an extravagant sword “it’s solid bronze and the hilt has silver studs” 204. This is an example of the gift giving tradition of a host. The corresponding duty that is asked of Odysseus is to entertain the subjects, by telling the story of his excruciating travels.
In conclusion, the guest-host relationship was thus very important for a man traveling upon the sea. Without a stay on an island it is hard to say the outcome of a voyage. The Odyssey does give an example of a bad relationship between a guest and his host, that of Odysseus and Poplyphemus. The book also explains two perfect guest-host relationships, that of Odysseus and the kingdom of Alcinous and Telemachus and Menelaus.
Telemachus and Odysseus both have great experiences with the guest host relationship throughout this book. Both of them experience these relationships on the journeys home and their hosts make their journeys home as easy as they possibly can. First on their journeys home both of them are helped immensely by their hosts because their host help and tell them ways to get home which Telemachus and Odysseus may have not known. Next during their stays Telemachus and Odysseus are both treated extremely well throughout almost all of their stays. I also agree with Graham with his example of when Telemachus is treated like a king with clothing and food on his journey home. Overall if someone was trying to figure out what the perfect guest host relationship would look like it would be much like what we see in this book with Telemachus and Odysseus because they are welcomed into their guests home with open arms and their guest offer and try to do everything they can to make they stay better.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Odysseus and Telemachus okay guests on their journey. I also believe that in some cases that both parties do not follow the guest-host relationship. Also that relationship is not followed something bad happens. In the Greek culture there is a structure of a guest-host relationship that they need to maintain. I strongly agree with Clare when she talks about how Odysseus can sometimes be a rude, greedy guest. I agree with her when she talks about how he looks for what he can get out of it and how the host needs to treat his with the best respect. The duties of the host are to take care of the guests. The host give gifts to the guest to help get back home. I also agree with Graham when he talks about with out the guest-host relationship their journeys would not be possible. The gifts that the hosts give them help them on their journey. The guest and hosts exchange knowledge in the time they spend together.
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ReplyDeleteValuable post, thank you for this informative info. Keep sharing
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