Zeus complains in Book I of the Odyssey:
Ah how shameless--the way these mortals blame the gods.
From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes,
but they themselves, with their own reckless ways,
compound their pains beyond their proper share (1.37-40).
What is Zeus saying? Is he right? Whose fault is it anyway that Odysseus has been wandering for ten years -- that the suitors are eating him out of house and home?
This passage in the Odyssey refers to the question of fate and its role in Greek society. Zeus states in this passage that when "miseries" are encountered by man, they blame the Gods. But Zeus does not take responsibility for this. However he states that it is human nature, and that the problems that they face are created by themselves and are not because of the Gods. This is true because man's ability to make decisions sometimes causes us pain or remorse. Thus Zeus argues that free will and the decisions that man makes controls the lives and fate of humans and not the Gods. For example, if one happens to decide to watch T.V. instead of doing homework, thus leading to a failing grade on a pop quiz, that is not God's fault but rather the result of a poor decision made by you. It was not God's fault that you did not do your homework, it would have been your own fault, which is what Zeus is arguing. That when man makes a decision then there will be adverse or positive effects because of that decision, and when the result is not a positive one, then that is because a wrong decision made. Not because the Gods conspired against you.
ReplyDeleteIt could be argues that Odysseus made the decision himself to go to Troy, thus leading to the events that took place afterwards leading to his wandering, directly causing the suitors to take advantage of his household. This is what Zeus argues. While "man", according to Zeus, would blame the Gods for such misfortune.
This quotation by the greatest of the Gods, Zeus, is trying two illustrating the relationship between man and God, specifically the question of fate. Zeus is telling the people it is both the hands of the Gods and the actions of the humans that will enviably determine fate. He does admit that most of a human’s fortune comes from the Gods; “From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes…” but he also explains that humans are as well to blame for the outcome of their lives when he says “with their own reckless ways, [humans] compound their pains…” One example of such a time where a human plays a role in his fate is when the suitors ransack the palace of Telemachus and Penelope. The Gods may have been subject for controlling fate and making the suitors come to the palace, but because Penelope does not immediately scorn the suitors for trying to woo her without absolute certainty that Odysseus is dead, she carries come responsibility for the arrogant suitors living within the palace. Not only does Queen Penelope not scorn the suitors, some may say she strings them along by devising her scheme of weaving a never-ending shawl. She tells the suitors that she will be able to remarry once she has finished creating a shawl for her husband’s father who had passed away. She prolongs the making of the shawl by unraveling it at night in order to have more time, for she has hope that Odysseus will eventfully return home. Another example of fate being controlled by both the Gods and the humans is Odysseus’ struggle to reach home. It was Odysseus’s own reckless behavior that created a perilous voyage home If he had not been arrogant and had had more respect for Poseidon “the mighty God of earthquakes” he would have not sailed into a storm that killed his crew and left him careening through the waves to the island of Calypso “the nymph with lovely braids.” Yet it can be argued that Poseidon controlled this fate for our hero because Poseidon created the storm on the high seas. Thus Zeus’s statement is correct describing the balance of power between man and God, in relation to fate. The gods do control fate but the actions of humans can increase their own suffering.
ReplyDeleteZeus is saying that the gods don;t inflict punishment upon people for no reason, instead, humans cause the god to inflict punishment upon humans by not sacrificing to the gods. An example of punishment being caused by a human himself is in the story of Agamemnon. In the case of Agamemnon, the gods caused Agamemnon to be stranded in Egypt until he started sacrificing to the gods; however when Agamemnon started sacrificing to the gods, they allowed him to come home. So not only do humans effect the punishment the gods inflict upon them, humans also effect the rewards the gods inflict upon them as well.
ReplyDeleteIn this quotation, Zeus questions the mortals by asking why they blame the g-ds for their miseries and sufferings. Zeus believes that the g-ds have nothing to do with the mortals’ sufferings. He believes that the mortals’ behaviors only further enhance their suffering and also that they say their suffering is worse than it really is. I believe that part of Zeus’s accusation is true while a different part is false. The end of this quotations, where Zeus says, “but they themselves… compound their pains beyond their proper share,” is true in my perspective. What this portion means is that the mortals are blaming the g-ds for more pain than they truly have. Even though the mortals may be over exaggerating how much suffering they have, I do believe however, that the mortals are right in accusing the g-ds to be the reason for their suffering. Odysseus is a perfect example. The only reason he is not home is because of the g-ds. In no way is it Odysseus’s fault that he is not home. Poseidon is essentially the reason Odysseus is not home yet. He blew Odysseus to Calypso, yet another g-d who only kept Odysseus away from home even longer. But, along with causing the mortals suffer, the g-ds also help the mortals to make up for it. Yet another example is Hermes, ordering Calypso to free Odysseus and also Athena who helps Odysseus swim through Poseidon’s massive waves. So the mortals are right in blaming the g-ds for their misfortune, but they don’t praise the g-ds for at the same time helping them.
ReplyDeleteIn the above quotation, I believe Zeus is saying although the gods do have control of humans, it is the humans fault for doing something that gets them punished. In The Odyssey there are many stories of war heroes returning from Troy. In the stories, whenever a hero got set off course, it was because they did something to upset the gods. In the story of Odysseus he did many things to upset Poseidon. First, one of Odysseus’s men killed Poseidon’s cows for food. The second cause for upsetting Poseidon was when Odysseus stabbed is son in the eye and killed him. If Odysseus had not done these actions then he would have had a safe and easy trip home. I also believe Zeus is correct in this quote, in the parts of the book we’ve read so far there is never a story of a man being punished unfairly. The only unjust action I see in this book is the suitors in Odysseus’s home. The suitors being there do not just harm Odysseus; they also harm Telemacus and Penelope. This is not fair because Telemacus and Penelope never did anything wrong that would upset the gods. Even though at first this was unjust, the gods saw that their error and went down to help Penelope and Telemacus. This action is showing me that the gods are not there to ruin your life for no reason, but to actually help the people who are being treated unjustly.
ReplyDeleteZeus is trying to claim that people blame the gods for everything, including the things that gods are not responsible for. Zeus thinks I completely disagree with what he is saying here. He’s totally wrong! The gods cause all the misery that happens in the book thus far. It is solely the god’s fault that Odysseus has been wondering for ears without ever seeing his family. At first it was Poseidon’s fault that he was left on the island. But then it was transformed into Calypso keeping him captured! In the sinerio of the suitors I believe there could be influences coming form either side. The real reason for this is caused by Odysseus not being home, and the gods are causing that! So you could claim that that is also the gods fault. With these two examples you know that the gods cause ALL misery!
ReplyDeleteIn a way I can agree with Zeus with the fact that humans make their own miseries worse, but overall the gods cause them all. In the sinerio of the suitors, even though the gods cause the fact that Odysseus is gone, it may be humans that made it worse by going and annoying Penelope.
I also agree with Noah a little bit. He made a good point when he said “mortals are blaming the g-ds for more pain than they truly have”. In this case its shows how many humans blow things out of proportion and believes they’re worse off then they already are. Which I totally agree with!
In this quotation, the great KING of gods, Zeus is questioning mortals if they can run a society right. The mortals are also questioning Zeus if he can run a society right as both the mortals and gods are questioning and blaming each other for their own troubles. Zeus is saying that the gods are not the ones who are causing problems but it the mortals themselves causing their own problems. Also it seems that the mortals depend too much on the gods to help them live their lives when they themselves should control their own lives. Yes he is right because the gods cant control everyones lives and they all have a certain power that cant control a mortals whole life only a certain part of it like love that Aphrodite control. Zeus probably believes that it is Odysseus's fault that he has been wondering for ten years because he had to go to war and has been running into trouble ever since so it might be his fate.I also believe that the suitors eating him out of the house is fate because he is not only being tested but his wife Penelopy is. The suitors are what seems like a test to see how long she can hold off the suitors while she awaits for Odysseus returns. Through out this book it seems as if everything depends on fate or whatever you do depends on your future. Odysseus is put through tests from Poseidon but Odysseus controls his own fate by challenging and fighting through the tests of Poseidon.
ReplyDeleteI found this quote to be very interesting. I believe what Zeus is saying is very true. In today's society, people truly believe that they do nothing wrong, and feel that they should blame others for their actions. Which also happens in the Odyssey. Zeus is saying that the gods do not punish people for no reason, it is that the people them selfs inflict the punishment on them selfs. The mortals do not understand their actions, such as Zeus is saying in the quote, " they say, come all their miseries, yes,but they themselves, with their own reckless ways." I agree with Ian when he talks about that when the heros get off track on their way home, it was because they did something to upset the gods. Though I also believe what Lando is saying. I feel like the gods to some what degree, "take advantage on their powers." I also agree with the example that Lando gave about the story of Agammemnon when he started sacrificing to them thing got better, but on the other hand when Agammemnon died he could not blame that on anyone but himself. He was killed by Aegisthus when Agammemnon killed someone close to Aegisthus and the only person fault is for his dealth is Agammemnon himself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Meredith with the fact that people today and people people of past centuries have always felt as if they do nothing wrong and that whenever something goes wrong it is always someone elses fault. I believe that people need to take responsibility for their actions and stop blaming others for their punishments. While humans do bad things to result in their punishments I do still believe like Londo that the G-D take to much advantage of their power and believe they could in a sense do whatever they want without it punishment. While this is true to an extant the G-Ds cant simply punish humans because they feel like it or that would be using their powers irresponsibly. Overall I believe that the G_Ds can use their powers in bad ways but for the most time the humans are causing their on pain and punishment by the stupid things they do.
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