Sunday, April 24, 2011
"The Great Teller of Tales"
At the beginning of Book 9, just before he tells the Phaeacians about his ill-fated journey, Odysseus is described as "the great teller of tales." In a sense, then, Odysseus is bard. What are his motives in telling his tale? Does he have the same motives as other bards in the story (such as Demodocus in Book 8)? Does his tale serve the same purpose or a different one? Finally, we know that Odysseus is a master of deceit and guile who concocted the scheme for the Tojan Horse. Should we take his story of one-eyed monsters and visits to the underworld at face value? Is there reason to believe his story is a fabrication?
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A bard like Demodocus is someone who would tell a great adventure of someone else. In chapter 8, Demodocus, the blind bard, sings lyrics to stories of great men. He sings of the great Odysseus himself. The songs marvel over how the Odysseus is a cunning, strategic soldier in the Trojan War. Demodocus also sings about Hephaestus, the crippled smith. In the song, Hephaestus defeats the god of war. Demodocus emphasizes how craftiness of one will overpower the god of war anytime. Other bards in a sense “brag” about the great adventure of other men, rather then themselves. This means, other bards like Demodocus are not looking for fame.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus is in someway of a bard, but his motives are different. Instead of stories of other great men or beasts, Odysseus tells stories of himself and boasts how cunning he is during his journey home to Ithaca. It can be seen in chapter nine that Odysseus is proud that he conquers the great Cyclops, Polyphemus. “Cyclops-if any man on the face of the earth should ask you who blinded you, shamed you so-say Odysseus, raider of cities, he gouged our your eye…” (9.559-563) Odysseus’ motive is to only brag about himself. All his stories are about him mostly and how he defeats giants and monsters. He is not like other bards at all. He is looking for fame.
Odysseus is known to be a man of deceit and guile, yes. Both he and Demodocus agree to that at least, according to their stories of the Trojan Horse and Polyphemus. Neither of the stories hint that Odysseus bogus. He himself would never admit that, but Demodocus never suggests that either. Therefore, his scheme and plans of action foretells we should have good faith in him when he visits the underworld.
I agree with Clare completely. A true bard only sings stories of other great men and their journeys, much like the blind bard Demodocus, instead of relaying stories about his own great battles and triumphs; much like Odysseus does throughout the books. All of the songs sung by the bard Demodocus were of men who were cunning and clever. One of these songs portrayed Odysseus’ clever plans in the Trojan War, another song sung by Demodocus portrayed Hephaestus and how he defeated Ares, God of War. As a bard, Demodocus’ motives are to entertain people with stories of other great men and their journeys.
ReplyDeleteOdysseus on the other hand does not have the same motives as Demodocus. Even though Odysseus tells stories of great journeys and great men, all of the stories that he’s told have been about him and all that he’s accomplished. A main reason that Odysseus tells different parts of his voyage to and from Troy is to make sure his name is well known to the people he meets, therefore he will be widely known around the world and his legacy will live on well after he dies. Odysseus serves a similar purpose as Demodocus, they use stories to entertain people, even though they have different intentions. Demodocus simply wants to entertain, while Odysseus wants to make his name and legacy famous.
Finally, I do believe that even though Odysseus is master of deceit and guile that the stories he tells of his journeys to and from Troy are 95% accurate. I think that in order for Odysseus to make himself seem more cunning and famous, he needs to alter his stories slightly. For example, in book 9 “Yet he set the West Wind free to blow us on our way and waft our squadron home. But his plan was bound to fail, yes, our own reckless folly swept us on to ruin…” (9. 29-31) Odysseus hints that it was ‘our reckless folly’ as in the all of the men’s fault, instead of blaming himself or the men specifically for their unfortune. Therefore, Odysseus can be trusted to tell the truth of what happened even if he fudged some minor details.
I would have to disagree with Clare and Sarah. I think a bard is allowed to tell stories about themselves. There is no reason why a bard if forbidden to tell his own stories. Both Sarah and Clare us Demodocus as an example to show what a classic bard is like, which is one who tells grand stories of other great heroes. But maybe Demodocus has no grand stories of his own to tell, so instead he uses others’ stories to sing about. Odysseus on the other hand has plenty of his own stories to tell, so why not tell them?
ReplyDeleteAs for Odysseus’ motive to share his glorious stories, many may think he is doing this to boast and brag about his accomplishments. But, there are many points in his stories where Odysseus puts blame and shame on himself. For example in the story of the west wind, Odysseus states, “But now an enticing sleep came on me, bone-weary from working the vessel’s sheet myself,” and this sleep is what causes their ship to be blown back to the island from which they came (9.35-9.36). Odysseus clearly states here that it was his fault for falling asleep and allowing his men to open the bad of winds. If Odysseus was truly bragging about his cunningness, he would have tried to cover this shame up somehow, but he did not. Obviously for this reason, Odysseus is not boasting but rather passing his legend on in order for him to be remembered. Odysseus’s motive is also the purpose of these tales, to simply pass on this legend and allow Odysseus to be remembered. As for the suspicion of fabrication, there is none. When Odysseus is giving himself blame and shame, there is no reason to believe that these stories are fiction. If these stories were in fact fiction, why would Odysseus blame himself instead of giving himself more glory? Obviously these stories are true.
I agree with Noah for the most part, but I think Odysseus stretched the truth, if just a little. A bard is some one who tells stories of historic wars and exploits so the past is not forgotten. Demodocus is blind, severely limiting what adventures he can have, so he has devoted his life to remembering and telling of other people’s great adventures and heroics. But Odysseus, on the other hand, has traveled far and wide and had many adventures. Who better tells of those escapades than a man who lived through them, and considering he is the only man who cam back from them.
ReplyDeleteAs for Odysseus’s reasons for telling his great adventures exactly as they happened with out aggrandizing the truth, there are none. Odysseus tells of all his great exploits so he might be made immortal in the minds of men. Why should he not tell the stories to make himself look at least a little more heroic, also considering he can not be proven wrong because all the men who shared his adventures did not return. An example of where he might have retold the tale a little differently than it happened is how Odysseus acted when he was sailing away from the Polyphemus, the Cyclops. He and his crew had stab the Cyclops in the eye and were then fleeing the island on their ships while the Cyclops threw giant boulders at them. Odysseus then shouts from his ship at the Cyclops, “ʻCyclops, if any man on the face of the earth should ask you who blinded you, shamed you so-say Odysseus, raiders of cities, he gouged out your eye, Laetes’ son who makes his home in Ithaca!’” (9.558-562). This makes Odysseus seem very brave considering he should be worried about being crushed by giant boulders. Also he tells the Cyclops where he lives, which is risky because it is possible that the Cyclops might try to hunt him down, to get revenge, and telling where he lives only makes it easier. This suggests to the listener that Odysseus was not afraid of the Cyclops.
Odysseus probably stretched the truth somewhat, but I think he told most as it happened because there was really no need to make himself look more heroic, he really did most of those great deeds.
I agree with the first part of Noah’s and most of Daniel’s. I agree that a bard is allowed to tell tales of himself, not only of other people. Like Noah said, Demodocus is a blind bard who most likely does not have any stories of his own, for he is blind, and therefore tells stories of others. There is no reason therefore, that Odysseus cannot tell tales of his own. Odysseus’ ultimate goal is to gain a legacy by achieving fame throughout the world. By telling his own stories, he is trying to achieve this goal. He may not have the same motives as Demodocus has, as Demdocus is telling stories for other people’s entertainment, while Odysseus is telling stories for fame. However, Noah said that Odysseus is not trying to brag, by admitting to messing up by falling asleep which led to the sailors opening the bag of winds. However, I believe that he still is trying to brag, but was forced to admit this flaw in order to obtain another bag of wind from Aeolus. This example is one of the only times throughout the epic where he is forced to admit his mistake, but in the end, all Odysseus is trying to do is gain as much fame and become legendary so that he can be remembered. The only way to achieve this, however, is by boasting, which may include exaggerating stories.
ReplyDeleteLike Daniel said, Odysseus does somewhat exaggerate his own stories. Although not very often, Odysseus performs some actions which some would not even think about doing if they were in the situation. The example Daniel gave is a perfect one. Odysseus and his men escaped form Polythemus, a one-eyed giant who is the son of Poseidon. While running away, Odysseus told Polythemus his name, so he could be remembered. However, by telling Polythemus his name, Polythemus is able to throw boulders in his direction, nearly killing Odysseus and his crew. One reading this epic could see that this little action adds to his fame. Polythemus, after Odysseus escapes, calls to his father and says, “grant that Odysseus, raiders of cities, Laetes’ son who makes his home in Ithaca, never reaches home” (9.589-.591). This quotation shows how Odysseus’ action to gain fame, resulted in Polythemus remembering him by remembering almost exactly what Odysseus called himself and then Poseidon will even remember him. Odysseus’ risks to gain fame, although sometimes stupid, helps Odysseus achieve his ultimate goal of fame.
Like Noah said, there really is no reason to believe these stories are fiction. Odysseus would not tell fabricated stories to others to gain glory and fame, as he truly wants to be remembered for tasks he did, not false ones. WIth this concept in mind, there would be no point of telling fabricated stories, so there is no reason to believe any of his stories are very fabricated, if at all.
I agree with what henry is saying. At the beginning of Book 9 Odysseus’s motive to tell his tale about this journey is because Alcinous asks Odysseus to tell truthfully who he is, where he is from and where he is going. In Book 8 Demodocus tells stories for entertainment purposes. Odysseus does and doesn’t have the same motive as other bards. Odysseus is not telling his for entertainment but it is entertaining to other people. When they describe Odysseus as the great teller of tales in the very first sentence of Book 9, I think that they do this not only because he tells so many stories but they might not all be true. We have read over half of this book and by now I am very suspicious of Odysseus’s stories he tells. In Book 14 he makes up story about where he is from and I see that he is really good at it.
ReplyDeleteI think that instead of taking Odysseus’s story about one-eyed monsters and visits to the underworld at face value we should think about Odysseus’s character. He is known for being able to concoct things on the spot. After all, he did concoct the scheme for the Trojan horse. In all of his stories he continues to portray himself as formidable and smart. After all these stories and with all I know about Odysseus I am starting to think that maybe all of the stories are not true. He could just be telling them for fame and to get people to think better of him.
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Noah, there are two reasons why Odysseus tells the story of his voyage, for a legacy and to present his half of the guest host relationship. The main motive for his extravagant tales of sailing the carnivorous seas is to be known and remembered. He wants his name to be immortal. The theme of his story is his heroic actions, such as in his tale of the Cyclopes. He was able to save most of his men from certain death by coming up with an ingenious plan:
ReplyDelete“I bent and shaved the tip to a stabbing point. I turned it over the blazing fire to char it good and hard, then hid it well, buried deep under the dung that littered the cavern’s floor in thick wet clumps. And now I ordered my shipmates all to cast lots—who’d brave it out with me to hoist our stake and grind it into his eye when sleep had overcome him?” (9.365-73)
The creation of this plan to save his crew and defeat the undefeatable is an example of Odysseus telling his story to tie his name with greatness. This separates him from the numerous bards; for they tell their stories to entertain, their stories are of the gods and others and never of themselves, they are not telling stories to advance their own glory but to tell of the grand conquests of others.
Odysseus’s other reason for telling his story is to complete the complex relationship between him and the Phaeacians, the guest-host relationship. The Phaeacians bestowed Odysseus with elaborate gifts, such as jeweled sword. In return for these presents Odysseus gave the gift of entertainment, and shared the story of his travels.
Because Odysseus is telling his stories in order to gain fame there is a slight chance that he is fabricating his tales in order to gain fame in the eyes of his listeners. This is not true. Odysseus for the most part only tweaks his stories to become more exciting; he merely exaggerates rather then deceits. Odysseus’s can be described as a master storyteller holding audiences captivated by tales of his life, there by making his name hold glory forever.
There is no doubt that these stories are part of what makes Odysseus famous, but I don’t think it could be said that he is any better than a bard because so. If a bard tells an excellent story then doesn’t he become famous? Take the very book this story comes from for example. Homer told a story that lasted for such a long time and furthermore made him famous. Whether Odysseus speaks truth or fiction doesn’t really matter because such a good story could be told by any other bard.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, Odysseus’s story is more likely to be true than a bard’s story. If Odysseus is telling the truth for the sake of telling the truth, then his whole tale will be true. A bard like Demodocus could mishear something and retell the original story wrong unless he was part of the story himself. Demodocus’s story of Hephaestus and Aphrodite is in fact less likely to be true than Odysseus’s tale because Demodocus does not have a first-hand account of what happened.
Also Odysseus could make his story more fictitious if he wanted to. In the tale of the Trojan horse, Demodocus does not tell of any mistakes Odysseus made. When Odysseus tells his story he explains how he loses his men and how he is in part to blame for some of his losses. If Odysseus truly wanted to make himself into a perfect hero, he could put more blame on the crew and instead make himself more helpless to losing them. Instead he did not, and this means that he is not thinking merely in terms of how he can become more famous, but also lives up to a moral code as well.