Thursday, May 5, 2011
Fame -- I Want to Live Forever
Odysseus demonstrates a passionate desire for kleos or fame through much of the Odyssey. Consider, for example, his taunting Polyphemus with his name as he escapes his island (and there are other examples) Yet, is it presented as an unequivocally good pursuit? Does the search for kleos help or hinder his journey? What about situations in which he disguises his identity? What is the importance of kleos to Odysseus and the Odyssey (the two may not be the same answer)?
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To Odysseus kleos is really his most important pursuit in life. It is his way of trying to become immortal without the help of a god. By doing as many heroic and great acts as possible, he might be remembered when he dies, that is very important to him. Odysseus shows his need for fame in dangerous acts he did that were unnecessary. One example of this is that he yells back to Polyphemus, which led to Odysseus being cursed by the Cyclops and Poseidon being angered. It could also be one of the reasons he tells his whole story to Alcinous and his court, to spread his fame and make Odysseus immortal in the minds of men.
ReplyDeleteOne example that shows that Odysseus believes that fame is really important, is what he says to comfort Achilles, “But you, Achilles, there’s not a man in the world more blest than you- there never has been, never will be one. Time was, when you were alive, we Argives honored you as a god, and now down here, I see you lord it over the dead in all your power. So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles.” (11.547-553) This shows that Odysseus thinks that as long as one is remembered it does matter if they are died. Achilles responds by saying he would rather be a random “dirt-poor tenant farmer” slaving a way, than rule in the underworld dead. This response shows that in the Odyssey, unlike what Odysseus thinks, it is better to be alive and be lowliest person that no one knows, than being extremely famous and being dead.
Odysseus on many occasions tries to increase his fame by boasting and singing about himself. It is natural for any person to want fame because everyone wants to be remembered. Odysseus, while on his journey, is constantly trying to make himself known to the world, which both helps and hurts his journey home.
ReplyDeleteFor example, when Odysseus is on the island with the Cyclops he boasts about himself. Odysseus was trapped by a Cyclops named Polythemus. After having many men killed in Polythemus’s cave, Odysseus and his remaining men finally escaped and got to their ship. As they were sailing off, Odysseus started boasting to Polythemus about how he had defeated him. Odysseus shouts, “Cyclops-if any man on the face of the earth should ask you who blinded you, shamed you so –say Odysseus, raider of cities, he gouged out your eye, Laertes’ son who makes his home in Ithaca!” (9.558 – 9.563). The Cyclops, Polythemus, then goes on to heave giant boulders at Odysseus’s ship and also pray to the god Poseidon who than on to blow Odysseus off course yet again, this is one situation where Odysseus’s search for fame only furthers his journey home.
But, while Odysseus is with the Phaeacians, his search for fame in a way helps his journey. Odysseus in a way becomes a bard on this island during the feast and tells his many stories of his journey. This way of acquiring fame is helpful because it gives Odysseus much food and fun in the games that they have. In this way Odysseus’s search for fame both helps and worsens his journey home.
I think it is very clear that fame, no matter what kind, is worth risking life and limb for according to Odysseus. The most suitable example being when he risked his life to make certain that the giant Cyclops Polythemus, son of Poseidon, knew that the one and only Odysseus was the brave soul who gouged his giant eye. This series of actions almost killed the entire ship when Polythemus heaved a hefty boulder towards the escaping ship’s direction, “the boulder crashed close, landing in just the wake of our stern, just failing to graze the rudder’s bladed edge.” (9. 599-601). I think that his quest for fame neither helps nor hinders his journey home. Even though when he dies, some of the people might remember him for the stories he told or the things he did, but now in the present moment his quest for fame gets him nowhere. It does not get him home any faster, it does not free him of the wrath of the Gods and it definitely does not save his life in any place. His quest for fame also does not hinder his journey. Sure he is slowed down a little and is almost killed because of his quest, but never does it do so much damage that Odysseus cannot continue his journey towards Ithaca.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daniel on the point that the idea of fame is two totally different concepts according to Odysseus and the Odyssey. He brings up a good point that Achilles and Odysseus have different points of view on this topic. Odysseus would rather die a man with a legacy while Achilles would rather be a dirt-poor man unknown to the rest of the world than be the ruler of the underworld. This clearly demonstrated how fame plays such an important role in Odysseus’ life.
I believe that Odysseus wants his name to become famous because he wants to be a legacy. Odysseus wants to live on forever, and the only way to do that without eternal life is to have your name passed down from generations, for your name to be passed down is for people to say stories and great feats of Odysseus so that he lives on forever. An example of a great feat of Odysseus is when he stabs the Cyclops in the eye, and he tells the Cyclops to tell everyone that Odysseus is the one that stabbed him in the eye when people ask the Cyclops to tell the tale of what happened to his eye; however when the Cyclops follows the directions of Odysseus and tells people his name, he his punished by the gods. So there is a consequence for wanting to live on forever because there will be people, or in Odysseus’s case, gods may not like your journeys or great feats because it may affect other people in the tale. I believe that Odysseus’s kleos is a great benefit to himself because when he goes to different islands many of the kings recognized who Odysseus was and gave him gifts and support to help him on his journey home. An example would be when Odysseus goes to the island of Aeolious in Book 10, when Aeolious gave Odysseus the bag of winds to help him on his journey home.
ReplyDeleteIt is very clear throughout the Odyssey that Odysseus demonstrates the yearning of fame. There are several examples that prove this including the renowned battle in Polythemus’ cave, his speech to Achilli’s, as well as the haituses that he took in his journey to accomplish the unfeasible. I further believe that these pursuits for fame not only hinder his journey, but also risk the lives of his comrades. The sole reason that fame is Odysseus’ higher priority is to achieve a form of immortality which renders high importance to him as well as the story. Without Odysseus’ hainous quests for fame, it would take away much of the plot line, thus making the story less interesting.
ReplyDeleteOdyseus’ quest for fame has been established thorugh many examples. An easily recognizable example would be his encounter with Polythemus. Before he took it upon himself to gouge out the Cyclops’s eye, he was known to the Cyclops as “No one”. After he achieved defeating the Cyclops, he says “Cyclops, if any man on the face of the earth should ask you who blinded you, shamed you so, say Odysseus, raider of cities, he gouged out your eye, Laertes’ son who makes his home in Ithica!”. (9.558 – 9.563¬). He would never had said this if he wasn’t highly concerned with fame. I will back up Daniel’s example regarding Odyseus advertising fame to Achilles. This proves that Odysseus not only thinks that fame vital in his own life, but he expresses that fame is important to thrive for in everyones lives; therefore, its not quite a selfish act as most people pose it to be. Also, Odyseus’ journeys such as to defeat Scylla and Chybdris even though Circe told him not to could have been an act of fame because he wanted to accomplish what others could not. These all ultimetly hindered his journey because they resulted in punishment from the gods and the loss of his crew. Finally, Odysseus’ persuit for fame may seem like a negetive cause physically, people will forever remember his actions and lead to fame furthermore, immortality, which is positive.
Odyssey's lust for kleos or fame is a very key theme throughout the Odyssey. Odyssey's has proven its importance to him by going to great lengths to make sure his mark has been left on whatever he was accomplished. For example, in Book Five, Odysseus tells his crew how he would have rather died in Troy a hero, "Three and four times more blessed were all the Greeks who died in the vast land of Troy to please the sons of Atreus. Would that I had met a death like theirs, had shared their destiny upon the day when crowds of Trojans cast bronze shafts at me, while battling around the body of Peleus' slaughtered son. I would have gained funeral rites; I would have earned much fame." (Odyssey 5.306-311) This is self evident that Odyssey values fame, and the "immortality" associated with it than, over his life. This proves to be horrible to him and his crew. For example, when he tells the Cyclops his name and such, the Cyclops prays to Poseidon to revenge him. Which of course he does. Such obstacle would have made his trip home thousands of times easier than had he not have been greedy for fame. Also, Odysseus did finally tell the Phaeacians his story, which would have been beneficial to Odysseus and his quest for fame.
ReplyDeleteThere are several times where Odysseus conceals his identity throughout the book. First in Troy. He concealed himself to make it seem as if he was a beggar to slip inside the city. “He slipped into the enemy’s city, roamed its streets, all disguised, a totally different man, a beggar . . . That’s how Odysseus infiltrated Troy” (4.276-9) He also kept from revealing his identity to the Cyclops until the end of his encounter. Kleus in the Odyssey are hurtful. For the time when he concealed himself as a beggar in Troy, he did not reveal his identity and all was fine and successful. However, when he revealed it at the end of the battle with the Cyclops it resulted in the curse that was cast upon him by Poseidon. Yet Odysseus views it as a necessity, as a gateway to immortality. Yet he must come to the conclusion, as his friend Achilles, that life is more important than fame in order to secure the safety of his family and himself. (And what would have been his crew had he not gone all I need Kleos.)
Throughout the book Odysseus keeps looking for fame in most part because he believes that will help his name live on forever. However throughout this book Odysseus makes decisions based upon it will make him famous or not, not weather upon it is the right decision or not. Also he searches for fame because he wants to be internal but this is the wrong way of going around this problem of being internal. Instead of trying to become as famous as possible Odysseus should work harder at making his son famous and allowing his name to live through his son. The main points is that even though I dont believe Odysseus should be trying to become famous he is doing it in the wrong way. Odysseus needs to learn that he is capable of doing great things and being in a sense a hero and these things will help him become a famous instead of making bad choices just because he thinks they will make him become more famous.
ReplyDeleteTo Odysseus, fame becomes his only way to be immortal after he rejects Calypso's offer. Whether he is cursed by the gods doesn’t matter to him because if he becomes famous enough all his misery won’t matter. When he dies, Odysseus won’t remember his own life. The parts of his life that were undesirable don’t matter to others. All that matters is he does great things that will be remembered. When Odysseus shouted out his name to the Cyclopes Polyphemus, it didn’t matter if he became cursed or not. In fact it would be better if he were cursed because that makes his journey all the more memorable to those that hear it. It was a risky gamble, as he could never come across someone to tell his story to if he died, but if he did then the stories retold about him would last even longer.
ReplyDeleteWhen Odysseus does more subtle things, such as living in his own home disguised when he returns to Ithaca, it is for the sake of his present life and not his immortal record. Odysseus needs to try and find a balance between living long and doing great deeds, because even if he does spectacular things, nobody will know about them if he dies in the process. By disguising himself he increases the amount of time he lives, and furthermore the amount of time he has to tell his story. If he lives for a long time, he will meet more people, who will learn of his story and spread it like gossip.
I agree with Sarah and Noah on this one. I agree with Sarah when she is saying that Odysseus will do basically anything to achieve Kleos or fame. I also agree with Noah when he talks about how Odysseus tries to increase his fame by talking about himself through singing or in other ways. I also believe that Odysseus wanting Kleos or fame both helps and hurts his journey. It hurts his journey by getting into obstacles, which risk his changes of getting home and even life threatening. But on the other hand his desire of wanting to kleos or fame makes his strive to get past all the obstacles that he faces. An example of disguising himself would be when he was trapped in Polyphemus’s cave, because of his disguise he was able to find a way to escape. When Odysseus disguises himself, that his when he is the safest.
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