Saturday, May 14, 2011
What a Tangled Web We Weave When We Practice to Deceive
Odysseus tells two elaborate lies in Books 13 (to Athena) and Book 14 (to Eumaeus) about his identity, his history and his reasons for coming to Ithaca. There is an old saying "once a liar, always a liar." Does the fact that Odysseus has the capacity to fabricate such lies cast doubt on the veracity of his story in Books 9-12? Or does something about the content of the stories (e. g. he admits to mistakes of judgment) or his situation in Phaecia (e. g . they have already demonstrated they are superb hosts) suggest he is truthful? Or perhaps he doesn't tell boldfaced lies but bends the truth a little? Does it call into question the truth of the entire epic itself?
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Odysseus does indeed tell lies upon his arrival at Ithaca, but unlike the story of his journeys he narrated through books 9-12 there was real reason behind why he would lie. The story that he told the people of Phaecia was not under the same circumstances like when he was in Ithaca, thus no good reason for him to lie. Upon his arrival at Ithaca, Odysseus did not have any knowledge of the situation at his house nor did he know about the suitors. He did not have any idea what he was stepping into, so cunningly he decided that he ought not reveal himself to anyone until he assessed the situation. Thus it was a very good reason to lie like he did. Unlike his situation in Ithaca, in Phaecia he was trying to explain the life that preceded his arrival there and the urgency of his situation. Yet during his narration of his life preceding his arrival at Phaecia, his story was very elaborate and honest in the fact that he was truthful and took responsibilities when he made mistakes. For example, his lack of quality leadership that lead him to make the poor decision of going into the cave of Pholyphemos. And the fact that he admitted the mistakes that his crew had made through the course of his journey. Because he was very detailed when it came to the admittance of mistakes that his crew made, such as the greed of wanted what was in the bag of wind, or eating the Sun God’s cattle, it shows that there was honesty in his story. Your crew and their behavior reflect their leader. Because he was willing to share and showcase how his crew messed up a couple of times reflects badly on Odysseus, and because he still did it shows that there is some truth to his story. Also at Phaecia his reputation preceded him, thus no good reason to make up such a story. Again, in Ithaca he had to conceal his identity to protect himself, for he had no idea what had happened in the course of 20 years he was gone. There was no need for this protection at Phaecia, for there was respect for him and he knew the situation there. Even at Phaecia he concealed his identity until he knew what was going on. Thus it is not because he is a rampant liar but because he is a cunning and careful leader that he lied, but because like any leader he had to understand the situation before hand. And because he has done this before, only to admit his identity later does not mean that he everything he does and says is a lie. There is a pattern that he does it in order to understand the situation like any good leader or cunning man.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Chris that there is a legitimate reason why Odysseus lies at certain points. I don’t think him lying to Athena, who is disguised as a Shepard boy, and Eumaeus suggests that Odysseus’ previous tales of his journeys are bogus. Frankly, I think he is wise to lie when he does. See, in books 9-12, Odysseus is too far away from Ithaca to even care if some other king sends him away. Sending him away is not necessarily sending him farther from Ithaca. It may very well be sending him closer to home. So telling the truth to the Phaecians will not delay his way back. He tells the truth and explaining how desperate he is and convinces the Phaecians of his story. He has nothing to hide if he wants the Phaecians to help him.
ReplyDeleteBut when he finally reaches Ithaca, he cannot wreck his chances of returning to his palace. He is wise in the fact that he think to create a fake story of his life. He does not know what the circumstances are at home with his wife. He has been gone for twenty years; a lot happened. Therefore, he needs to take precautions before expecting a warm welcome from his palace. Both incidences where he completely lies happen when he reaches Ithaca. Like Chris said, he cannot reveal himself yet. There are many Achaeans, such as the suitors, that loathe Odysseus and his wealth and would be happy to hear of his death. If he were to reveal himself, one may come after him. This will give him no chance at all returning to his wife, Penelope.
With the help of Athena, Odysseus makes smart judgments. “He stood on native ground at last and he replied with a winging word to Pallas, not with a word of truth-he choked it back, always invoking.” (13.286-289) This shows that he was tempted to blurt out the truth to Athena, disguised as the Shepard boy then. He chokes but holds it back, afraid that word would spread from this little boy. Even just a little boy, Odysseus cannot trust anyone yet because again of the circumstances. When he meets Eumaeus, the loyal swineherd to Odysseus, he still cannot reveal the truth to him either. Athena warms him of the suitors and disguises him as an old, ugly man. This suggests that Athena is indirectly telling Odysseus that they cannot reveal to anyone who he is. Odysseus understands and makes up a lie to Eumaeus. Odysseus has to lie to the people he trusted when he was king, but does not have to lie to those he just met. He has to test his friends and servants of their loyalty. Any wise leader and soldier would test his troops.
Brodysseus, the teller of tales, is defiantly good at making up stories as we see in chapters thirteen and fourteen. These lies lead me to believe that none of the things Brodysseus says are truth. If he can so easily make up on the spot stories, then when he takes the time to really make up a good story he can probably make them up so well that we will all believe him. One example of a ridiculous story he tells is the one about the Cyclops in earlier chapters. Some say that he might just be exaggerating but I don’t believe me one bit. This takes the integrity of the story to be very questionable. Considering the fact that Brodysseus is trying to find fame he has a total reason to make up crazy stories. For all we know Brodysseus could be chilling on the beach with hot girls for ten years writing stories. Brodysseus could honestly do whatever he wants then write these stories. I completely disagree with Chris because he argues that in earlier books that Brodysseus has no reason to lie about what he id doing when in fact he does. That reason is fame. When seeking fame it makes complete since to completely lie about what you do. When you want people to remember you for ever you aren’t going to talk about being captured by a chick, you’re going to make up amazing stories about how much you are a hero. So overall, we cannot believe anything Brodysseus says because he is obviously so good at making up lies.
ReplyDeleteIndeed Odysseus, the teller of tales, seems to lie a lot throughout the poem. But there’s always a reason for Odysseus’s actions since we have all figured out by now that Odysseus is a very clever man that is always thinking ahead. In book thirteen and book fourteen when Odysseus lies I believe was necessary except ling to Athena. But he didn’t mean to lie to Athena. Odysseus lies in book thirteen and fourteen to protect his self from being in danger and Ithaca from turning into complete chaos. He lies because he is close to Ithaca and he doesn’t want anyone to find out yet that he is home so he can figure out a way to deal with the suitors. If the suitors knew that Odysseus has returned then they would have to take action and kill him so that means whole Ithaca cannot find out yet that their king has returned or else the suitors would find out. In books nine through twelve when he’s telling people stories believe that they are all true because he is in no danger to tell people his name. His name is no danger to the places that he visits because his name means nothing to most of the people at the island and most of the people he runs into aren’t trying to kill him. When he does lie he is kind of telling a story not far from his telling would probably actually be like. He is just pretty much just changing names and places different from what he has visited and experienced. So Odysseus kind of bends the truth a little.
ReplyDeleteAs we know that Odysseus tells two lies in Books 13 and 14, lead to believe that Books 9-12 were not true. I believe that the story was true to some degree, but Odysseus embellished on the severity of the problem. I feel like he did not completely make up the stories, based on the situations of where we know for a fact he tells the lie. In Books 9-12 people know him so he doesn’t need to tell lie, but I feel like he embellished on the stories, because Odysseus wants fame and through the story it shows that he will do about anything to have fame. In Books 13 he needed to lie in order to be able to try to get home safely.
ReplyDeleteI feel like this has to question the entire epic. I do not believe that the epic was far from the truth; I just believe that the truth was stretched a little. Has we decided in class, Odysseus tells lie according to guidelines. The guide lines he has are make sure you can describe details and most important do not stray to far from the truth, which makes me believe that the entire epic is not a lie just stretches the truth.
I agree with Claire that Odysseus has good reasons for lying when he does. Even though Odysseus has told elaborate lies to Athena and Eumaeus, he has had good motives to lie to the both of them. The reason that he lies to Athena and Eumaeus about his identity and where he came from was to protect him and others that he is close to. Before he returned home to Ithaca, he was unaware of the current situation. He did not know anything about the situation with the suitors; he did not know anything about the situation with Telemachus and Penelope or with anything else involving his palace. He lied to them to give himself a fair chance at returning home to his beloved son and wife.
ReplyDeleteHowever, even though Odysseus lied for a reason in these two incidents, I believe that he has stretched the truth in his previous stories in order to make himself seem more heroic. The reason for him to stretch the truth on his journeys is to make it appear as if his is absolutely incredible so people would remember him when he dies. After all, the reason he tells people his stories with such length and detail is to make himself famous. The reason that I believe that he does not lie completely in previous stories is because in the lies he told to Athena and Eumaeus have similarities to his real life adventures. For example, when he tells his false background to Athena, he mentions that Orsilochus “tried to rob me of all the spoil I’d won at Troy,” (13. 297) Odysseus makes a connection between the lie and his real journey at war in Troy which makes it quite difficult to believe that all of his stories were flat out lies. I don’t think that his exaggerations call into question the stories previously told by him because it is just not easy to fabricate such detailed lies and to make all of the lies string together as If they were real. Even though Odysseus bends the truth in some of his stories to make himself seem more heroic, all of his stories are told about actual events in his life.
Odysseus has proven in both, book 13 and book 14, that he can create very elaborate lies. Even though Odysseus was able to create these lies, I still believe that the other parts of his stories are true. I believe he was telling the truth in books 9-12 because he did not have a reason to lie. The only reasons Odysseus could have to lie in books 9-12 are to make himself sound more heroic. Also, if he had lied to make himself sound more interesting that would not explain how his men were killed and how he lost many ships. In books 13 and 14 Odysseus had very good reasons to lie. In book 13, when Odysseus was talking to Athena in disguise, he needed to lie to her because if Odysseus had told her who he actually was, that could have put him into danger. The reason he could have been put in danger is because he did not know if this person he was talking to might tell the suitors about his return and the suitors would have plotted how to kill him. Also, in book 14, Odysseus did not know at the time weather or not if Eumaeus was still loyal to him. Telling him could have also put his life in danger. The final reason I believe that Odysseus was not lying in the books 9-12 is because Odysseus would have no reason to make himself look bad. If he was going to lie he would not tell the stories of his gloating almost getting him killed. This is why I continue to believe the book even though it is told by an amazing liar.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Sara and Clare. I also feel that Odysseus only lies in times that he needs to lie. The two times that he lies in chapter 13 were necessary for the situation that he was in. If he hadn’t lied both of those times, the suitors may have found out that he was there and he may have died. When he said both of those lies, he was referred to as the great teller of tales, and that name was also given to him when he told the stories that are chapters nine through twelve. I feel that this I only a coincidence that occurred. I think this name was given to him at those times not because he was lying but simply because he was telling stories about himself, stories that were both true and false.
ReplyDeleteI don’t feel that the stories Odysseus told in chapters nine through twelve were completely false. The reason I think this is because he had no motive to lie to the Phaecians. There was no point to make these stories up except for getting some more fame. But, Odysseus was already famous, so I feel that the worst he could have done was make a few small exaggerations to make him seem more like a hero. Another reason I don’t believe those stories were made up is because if those stories were false, why would it have taken Odysseus years and years to get home. Those stories have to be true because where else would he have been and how else would have his crew disappeared.
I agree with Ian, that Odysseus can create very elaborate lies, and that even though Odysseus told the lies in book 13 and in book 14, I believed that in book 9, book 10, book 11, and book 12 the stories told are true because Odysseus has nothing to lie about in those situations. As a reader reading The Odyssey, it is quite evident when there are situations when Odysseus must lie so that he can be safe. An example would be when Odysseus returns home to Ithica, and he goes to his house in his disguise, the tale that Odysseus tells is what allows him to get closer to Penelope because she wants to talk to who she thinks is a beggar that was with Odysseus during his journey. With the disguise and lie that Odysseus is just a beggar, Odysseus finds himself in safe contact with Penelope. Instead of if the suitor knew that the beggar was Odysseus and would probably attempt to kill him so that they can continue to reap his wealth. Odysseus's lie is also a good insurance when he meet Eumaes because Odysseus didn't know who Eumaes was and if also Odysseus did not know that Athena was Eumaes, so if Odysseus told Eumaes that he is Odysseus, the news could have easily spread around the kingdom just like Telemachus's return was spread throughout the kingdom, and most importantly, to the suitors. I believe it is a great idea for Odysseus to hide his identity when it is necessary. Odysseus's ability to come up with elaborate lies displays more of his cunning wits.
ReplyDeleteI also believe like many other of the posts that while Odysseus does make 2 huge lies in these books I don't believe that means he lies throughout the whole book. I believe that because his life in a sense was on the line and his name was in jeopardy he had to lie. In the past books Odysseus’s name and life has not been on the line which makes you believe that he wouldn’t lie because he didn’t have to. While I don’t believe he lied in the past books I do believe that he many of not been completely truthful and he may have changed the stories around a little in order to make himself seem stronger, more powerful, and greater. Overall I believe that Odysseus has not lied in the past because it has not been life threatening to him however I do believe that Odysseus has stretched the truth in the past in order to make himself seem greater.
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